Indian or Pakistani SAP Consultants with Big 4 experience

SAP job related postings only ( For registered users only)

Moderators: rtella, Snowy, thx4allthefish

PaulD
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:37 am

Indian or Pakistani SAP Consultants with Big 4 experience

Post by PaulD » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:25 am

I have a number of requirements in Saudi Arabia for Big 4 SAP Functional Consultants. Ideally we would like Team lead/Project Managment experience and around 5-8 years SAP focussed project experience.

FI/CO, MM, and/or SD modules would be of particular interest along with HR.
These are permanent roles and all visa arrangements will be facillitated by my client.

We would be interested in talking to any Indian or Pakistani consultants prepared to relocate.

JayLo
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:12 am

Are you for real

Post by JayLo » Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:31 pm

I am a westerner, a certified SAP FICO consultant, born and raised in South Asia. Just want to ask if either you or your clients are racist, cheap, condescending, or all of the above? As I can see where your are going: your next posting will say only those native south Asians coming from a big family, taking a bus, or riding a bicycle to go to work can apply. How low do you want? If it is only you, caution: This is a public forum, your Big-4 clients may have deep pockets, but they may not want to pay for your lawsuits.

PaulD
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:37 am

Re: Are you for real

Post by PaulD » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:00 pm

JayLo wrote:I am a westerner, a certified SAP FICO consultant, born and raised in South Asia. Just want to ask if either you or your clients are racist, cheap, condescending, or all of the above? As I can see where your are going: your next posting will say only those native south Asians coming from a big family, taking a bus, or riding a bicycle to go to work can apply. How low do you want? If it is only you, caution: This is a public forum, your Big-4 clients may have deep pockets, but they may not want to pay for your lawsuits.


Where does it say I won't consider anyone else? I've posted the salary why not apply? The fact the salary is approx 5 times what the average SAP guy is making in either of those countries might be why I have targeted those areas, whereas in Europe it would be about par.

If you look at a map you may spot the proximity of both India and Pakistan to Saudi. That may give you a clue why I spelt out who I'd be interested in talking to.

I love the way you managed to spout the racist cliches, rolled off the tongue pretty quick did they?

JayLo
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:12 am

we know google at least if we not already know the map

Post by JayLo » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:18 pm

Oh, I see. So your defense is to shift your reader's focus from apparent discrimination of all the non-South Asians SAP consultants of the world, or westernized Indians/Pakistanis like me, to you being the good guy doing a HUGE favor to those poor average SAP brothers in my homeland. I see. Excuse me sir, isn't it how the slave trade started, in a way?

Some people just don't like to show his true colours when talking from both sides of his mouth. Some people also don't like to be called on the carpet when he gets caught. Please sir, you don't have to state the obvious and educate us on geography, as most SAP consultants know geography. If we don't know how to read the map, we still have Google these days!

SAP consultancy is a global phenomenon that all consultants in the world are interested in projects they are qualified for. You use location proximity as a ploy to cover your tracks, which is fine, and congratulation, you succeeded (although must say the crutch you stand on is pretty weak). Must also tell you (although you already knew), your obvious intention to your readers is like the siren on top of the ambulance, ... very loud and clear, that is all.

Suggestion: Another more tactful way (or your sneaky way) is NOT to mention requirements about south Asians, but spend some money, hire a secretary to toss out the non-South Asians CV's to the trash in your office. ... I am sure you agree. That is alright, mate. No response is necessary, your reflection on the truth is enough, and I am sure you will do better next time.

PaulD
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:37 am

Re: we know google at least if we not already know the map

Post by PaulD » Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:19 am

JayLo wrote:Oh, I see. So your defense is to shift your reader's focus from apparent discrimination of all the non-South Asians SAP consultants of the world, or westernized Indians/Pakistanis like me, to you being the good guy doing a HUGE favor to those poor average SAP brothers in my homeland. I see. Excuse me sir, isn't it how the slave trade started, in a way?

Some people just don't like to show his true colours when talking from both sides of his mouth. Some people also don't like to be called on the carpet when he gets caught. Please sir, you don't have to state the obvious and educate us on geography, as most SAP consultants know geography. If we don't know how to read the map, we still have Google these days!

SAP consultancy is a global phenomenon that all consultants in the world are interested in projects they are qualified for. You use location proximity as a ploy to cover your tracks, which is fine, and congratulation, you succeeded (although must say the crutch you stand on is pretty weak). Must also tell you (although you already knew), your obvious intention to your readers is like the siren on top of the ambulance, ... very loud and clear, that is all.

Suggestion: Another more tactful way (or your sneaky way) is NOT to mention requirements about south Asians, but spend some money, hire a secretary to toss out the non-South Asians CV's to the trash in your office. ... I am sure you agree. That is alright, mate. No response is necessary, your reflection on the truth is enough, and I am sure you will do better next time.
You rambled in the last paragraph I felt.

I don't understand your point, are you saying I should run an advert now saying I'm interested in Indians Pakistanis AND South Asians? Specifically what countries are in South Asia? I#d hate to get it wrong. Or are you saying I am discriminating against people from South Asia who don't live there?

Now the slave trade......how is asking for applicants from neighbouring countries to apply the same as going to a country and forcing people at gun point to get on a boat. Thats rather a poor analogy. In fact rather insults all those who were victims of the slave trade. To be clear me asking someone to apply for a job is not the same as the slave trade. So in way no its not very good comparison. Still no racist insults this time.....jolly well done.

Anyway the easy solution? Watch the Life of Brian.

JayLo
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:12 am

Some friendly fire ... for your backyard barbecue!

Post by JayLo » Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:20 pm

You are wrong. The last paragraph suggests a solution fitting your tight budget, and works just fine to those who decided to use discriminating practices to select the desirable candidates without offending those being discriminated. However, you will be the judge and jury crushing the hopes and dreams of many otherwise qualified candidates without their knowing about it. If that scenario fits into your belief, ethics and professional integrity, be my guest. After all only you and the guy upstairs watching you are in this. I must say, you might loose some sleep over it though if you are a genuine professional.

My point was undeniable clear from my last mail: I consider SAP consultancy is a global phenomenon, Challenges in SAP projects represent opportunities that all qualified candidates are aspired to take on.
Although it is not a mandatory requirement to join, the SAP job forum invites/encourages those who share the same belief when posting SAP project opportunities here for all qualified candidates around the world to participate and consider. In the process, SAP clients get professional results they deserve and able to avoid possible quality degradation issues due to imperfection of the cheap-labour supply chain.

Your discriminating tactics to select only south Asians to these projects not only discriminate rest of the qualified candidates in the world, me included. You are crucifying brothers of my homeland never be able to be rightfully rewarded in this global village and rise above the poverty line in SAP consulting world, by exploiting, profiting and perpetuating the huge differentials of financial rewards for their professional works.

Although anyone can refuse to get on that boat, but you do have an invisible gun pointing to their heads to deliver the desirable effect by presenting your choice: through 'unethical fishing' in a global forum with discriminating selections of your candidates so that the brothers sell their cheap labour for you to handsomely profit from their sweat equity, which they will never otherwise choose to do if only real information is flowing freely to them on this global forum without such artificial restriction. The notion and concept of slavery in this scenario are the same: "Sell me your cheap labour at a slavery-like rate in SAP professional consultant world, do it in such a way that I can profit tremendously from your productivity, and turn all your sacrifices in your hard work, your having to leave your love ones behind, and your working under a sub-prime conditions into deep profit margin so that I can live like your master." I happen to believe that your practice is totally driven by personal greed, blatantly offensive and discriminating, low-handed, shameful, unprofessional, and is destroying the spirit many of us share in this professional global forum, and that you should be publicly shamed, stigmatized and discouraged from such practice.

In closing, I believe you are relying on too many books to chart your defense when just some common sense and professional decency will suffice. Could that be your spending too much time on these do-it-yourself books, and not enough time practicing how to save your humanity, spirit and uphold the professionalism involving in global SAP consulting we all should be proud of? Again, I hope my two cents here can inspire those who share the same vision to comment on the subject. Effectively and in the long run, we are contributing to a leveled plane for all participants and providing a damping effect to undesirable practices such as this on this forum.

Sorry for torturing you with this long mail. I buy you a beer, how's that?

PaulD
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:37 am

Post by PaulD » Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:19 pm

I lost the will to live about two lines into your reply but agreed with the sentiment of the last line. So lets agree to differ and share a cold one

JayLo
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:12 am

Cheers

Post by JayLo » Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:14 pm

Yes, lets drink to that: we agree to disagree. I like that. I am satisfied that my points landed on the receiving end safe and sound, judged by the spike of the readership of this exchange. Cheers, mate.

PaulD
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:37 am

Re: Cheers

Post by PaulD » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:57 am

JayLo wrote:Yes, lets drink to that: we agree to disagree. I like that. I am satisfied that my points landed on the receiving end safe and sound, judged by the spike of the readership of this exchange. Cheers, mate.
One small point, and after your diatribe I decided to check it, the roles and rates offered actually in net terms are better than the rates offered in either the UK or mainland Europe. These are though "perm" rates rather than contract, certainly on the contract side rates do not normally compare.

The thinking behind the original posting was that there is a number of articles on this site, and others, saying that Indians and Pakistanis are actively discriminated against by some of the Middle Eastern operations. For some of the local operators there is an element of truth in this ( to quantify my experience I have recruited around Saudi for the last 6-7 years ) however for the global operations I have not found that to be the case.

technostud4u
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:25 pm

Post by technostud4u » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:10 pm

Paul, thnx for taking time to qualify your position on this issue. It is mucho appreciated.

I dont usually see recruiters coming back and defending their position..

and Jaylo, nice work man..!!! very good points
You are a naughty girl. now go to my room

PaulD
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:37 am

Post by PaulD » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:00 pm

technostud4u wrote:Paul, thnx for taking time to qualify your position on this issue. It is mucho appreciated.

I dont usually see recruiters coming back and defending their position..

and Jaylo, nice work man..!!! very good points
Not a problem, enjoyed the debate!

Gladiator
Posts: 797
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:55 am
Location: Hyderabad, India

Post by Gladiator » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:42 pm

technostud4u wrote:Paul, thnx for taking time to qualify your position on this issue. It is mucho appreciated.

I dont usually see recruiters coming back and defending their position..

and Jaylo, nice work man..!!! very good points
Jaylo! I really liked what you wrote!!

I really do not want to find whether what PaulD wrote was right or wrong. He's a recruiter and they work for profit and per directives from top management.

I really hate Saudi, called as The Kingdom. The entire country is racist. How I wish somebody could teach them a lesson or two. Slavery still exist in that bloody country - in many forms. They just dont have any respect for Indian Sub-continent or for that matter towards any other poor country.

Saudi...Saudi...it is a big menace on the face of the earth. It's a pity even US can/will not do anything to control this racist country.

I was never there in that country but you dont need to live in Sudan to say genocide is happening there nor you dont need to live in Nazi-era to say Holocaust happened. Lot of my friends were there and still some of them are there ( for various reasons...people who fled their poverty but lost their self-respect in that pitifull country ). It's a Muslim country but dont atleast even respect their fellow Muslims from India and Pakistan.

Just bomb that bloody country to stones and the world would be a better place.
Gladiator.

JayLo
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:12 am

Trading Partners not Human Cargo

Post by JayLo » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:12 pm

Thanks for the kind words, Gladiator. Most SAPPERs by and large are rational cool-headed bunch, and this is a global forum. As much as I am very emotional about the issue, we should stick with the topic and keep our discussion only to the issue.

I reason with my tongue and I prefer making love and not wars. Based on the spike of readership of this exchange, I believe I have achieved my goal planting a seed for thoughts in the minds of those unethical operators in SAP human supply chains (the Big-4's included), and to the brothers of the world who aspired one day to compete fair and square in the global village of SAP Consulting.

We should resist the temptation getting off track. More importantly, we all should refrain from pulling the race card, using harsh languages or resorting to violent thoughts to deface the integrity of our opponents. As it will do little good but give rise to further exploitation by the stereotypes and unethical operators in the SAP human supply chain.

They may treat us as human cargo to be shipped on that boat. Lets prove to them this cargo has the mind of his own and is fully capable of jumping ships if our destiny deems undesirable, and that we all should have the equal aspiration owning our own fleet of yards! It may sounds ironic, I for one will be thrilled to be a business partner of my yester-year master. But during this round, I should be more than happy renting them my yard when his slave-boat is taking in waters for a pretty penny.

PaulD
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:37 am

Re: Trading Partners not Human Cargo

Post by PaulD » Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:54 pm

JayLo wrote:Thanks for the kind words, Gladiator. Most SAPPERs by and large are rational cool-headed bunch, and this is a global forum. As much as I am very emotional about the issue, we should stick with the topic and keep our discussion only to the issue.

I reason with my tongue and I prefer making love and not wars. Based on the spike of readership of this exchange, I believe I have achieved my goal planting a seed for thoughts in the minds of those unethical operators in SAP human supply chains (the Big-4's included), and to the brothers of the world who aspired one day to compete fair and square in the global village of SAP Consulting.

We should resist the temptation getting off track. More importantly, we all should refrain from pulling the race card, using harsh languages or resorting to violent thoughts to deface the integrity of our opponents. As it will do little good but give rise to further exploitation by the stereotypes and unethical operators in the SAP human supply chain.

They may treat us as human cargo to be shipped on that boat. Lets prove to them this cargo has the mind of his own and is fully capable of jumping ships if our destiny deems undesirable, and that we all should have the equal aspiration owning our own fleet of yards! It may sounds ironic, I for one will be thrilled to be a business partner of my yester-year master. But during this round, I should be more than happy renting them my yard when his slave-boat is taking in waters for a pretty penny.
I hate to be a cynic but....who are "they"? SAP is software made by clever Germans, its all over the world lots of different people use it and work with it. It is not a utopian answer to some hippys prayers that there is no "marketplace" and we are all "equal" if only "the man" didn't try and exploit it/us.

Look, put out the joss-sticks, take your kaftan off go and burn your Simon and Garfunkel album and stick the Clash on. Jesus sometimes I wonder if punk ever happened....

Gladiator
Posts: 797
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:55 am
Location: Hyderabad, India

Post by Gladiator » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Odin wrote:
I'm appalled that SAPfans moderators allow such outrageous, racist and demeaning statements, in, of all, the public jobs forum.
Moderators here are really fabulous and they're going to lock it. My comments certainly deserved to be locked but I wrote what's on my mind.
Gladiator, I learned through my own painful experience that it helps a lot not to mouth of about countries & cultures that one hasn't experienced himself first hand.
As I wrote earlier, I dont need to be in Saudi. I know more facts about Saudi than you. I know close to 20 people who either lived there or still living.
You wrote you've never been to Saudi, yet you not just blast (all of) Saudi Arabia as racist and compare them to Nazis, you even call for the whole darn country to be bombed to stones.
I did not compare Saudi and Nazis. I was giving analogy of how 'you need not be there' to know the truth.
You sound just as blood-thirsty as certain low lifes ridding through the night with white sheets over their heads.
I certainl am when it comes to Saudi.

Fact is that they got their reasons in Saudi Arabia
What reasons? They just use the name of Quran and just treat all their women as 'Second-class citisens' and all foreigners ( especially non-Western people ) as even 'third-class citizens'. Treating people like that is certainly RACIST.
And if you dislike it that much there, then don't go and work there.
I got an offer once and I was glad to refuse.
And by the way, you seem to know as little about the situation in the Sudan as George (Clueless) Clooney does.

Are you suggesting there's no Genocide happening in Sudan? That's certainly not funny, sir.
I agree even rebels are doing the same thing that the Government has been doing. Who started it first? Muslim Government just did not want any Christians live on Sudanese soil. The mindless rebels had to resort to the samething, too, and it's certainly bad.
All of them are not. My comments are only about Saudi and Saudi men dont even know how to respect their own women - all of them, infact.
Not just cheaper but because they can be treated like slaves (financially or physically or even emotionally...one way or other).
Gladiator.

Locked