Odd American Behavior?

[VLozano]

Those "Project Leaders" are not leaders but of name. They are just a bunch of smoke-sellers, and the most (non-Tuly) idiot the customer, the more success they have. It's just about appearance.

I was told once to reach my workplace later just because when I reached "too soon", I left "too soon". The main goal was the customer watch me working when leaving, and not if my work was good enough or if I worked the hours they contracted me for.

I left that game two hundred years ago: since my second year of dung beetle work, I told all my bosses (or future bosses in work interviews) that:
1- I don't lie: if I don't know something, I admit it (but I'm pretty good skilled at googling)
2- I don't work more than my contracted hours (but when it's truly needed, and the management has not fucked all... "my fault?" my time / "your fault?" see you tomorrow morning)

Up to now I didn't failed any interview (and I really don't know why, because people don't like to hear the truth).

Follow the Bushido, except about committing seppuky when your master acts without honour.

[bgamble]

I have been working in Germany for about 4 years now and I can make the following observations

1. You will not see middle aged men in the US wearing leather pants. Out side of San Fran. You will not make it through a single day In Germany without seeing at least one middle aged German asshole wearing leather pants.

2. Every German woman over 50 is dying to have sex with me. All of them. I can see it in their eyes. This speaks volumes about just how horrible these people are.

3. Every once in a while some German asks me "You have been here for 4 years now, have you learned to speak any German?" I always say. "My grandpa died so I would not have to learn your ugly fucking language" This always changes the subject

4. The Tram stop on my way to work this morning was covered with trash. Burger wrappers and discarded curry wurst trays. When I got on the tram there were of course empty bear bottles rolling around all over the place

VLozano - All immigrants in America are Mexicans. It does not matter where they are from

[Rich]

BUT STILL, why have people become this way?

I don't know about other countries but in England it's basically because of the social enginerring carried out by the Labour Government.

One way of controlling a population is to make it dependant on the Government. Benefits, reducing education standards, mass immigration, reducing the importance of a well balanced family etc etc etc. This results in a generation with no work ethic, low ideals, a disregard for common etiquette, a generation which thinks it's their right to receive government hand outs rather than work and many other failures.

[VLozano]

Richosaur, I would agree with you except with the "Labour" word. I don't know if "Labour" means "left" or "right" in the UK, but it doesn't matter. Here in Spain (*sigh*) we had left and right governments (I'm sorry, but I cannot use a capital letter to talk about our politics) and both had used social engineering to fuck the whole country. I think your conspiracionist theory must go deeper.

Again, I don't know what happened outside my "beloved" Spain, but I can tell you what happened here: the pendulus law went too far. We had a generation (between my parents' and mine) made by a bunch of complete abnormals. I never had to raise a hand over my daughter to educate her. But she doesn't lie (I want to believe), she respects her elders and she knows she must work hard to reach her goals.
My parents slapped my face countless to put those concepts in my brain. Maybe the way was not the proper one, but the goal was. And they (more or less) succeeded.

Between my parents and me you can find a whole generation who says

"No" is a word that makes our sons unhappy and accomplexed. We cannot say "No" to them.

You can guess how they raised their children. Now those children are the infamous "ni-ni" spanish generation ("ni-ni" means "no-no": no studies-no work). People able to raise a hand over their PARENTS when they cannot give them money to go out to have fun.

It's not about left or right, it's about common sense. And we have a sever lack of it to-day.

[Rich]

Richosaur, I would agree with you except with the "Labour" word. I don't know if "Labour" means "left" or "right" in the UK, but it doesn't matter. Here in Spain (*sigh*) we had left and right governments (I'm sorry, but I cannot use a capital letter to talk about our politics) and both had used social engineering to fuck the whole country. I think your conspiracionist theory must go deeper.

Again, I don't know what happened outside my "beloved" Spain, but I can tell you what happened here: the pendulus law went too far. We had a generation (between my parents' and mine) made by a bunch of complete abnormals. I never had to raise a hand over my daughter to educate her. But she doesn't lie (I want to believe), she respects her elders and she knows she must work hard to reach her goals.
My parents slapped my face countless to put those concepts in my brain. Maybe the way was not the proper one, but the goal was. And they (more or less) succeeded.

Between my parents and me you can find a whole generation who says

"No" is a word that makes our sons unhappy and accomplexed. We cannot say "No" to them.

You can guess how they raised their children. Now those children are the infamous "ni-ni" spanish generation ("ni-ni" means "no-no": no studies-no work). People able to raise a hand over their PARENTS when they cannot give them money to go out to have fun.

It's not about left or right, it's about common sense. And we have a sever lack of it to-day.

Well said, and for Labour read Communist.

And what type of Society changes the way Games are played at school because the fact of losing could affect the childs development ? (this ties in quite well with your ni-ni society) and don't get me started on Health And Safety.

[VLozano]

what type of Society changes the way Games are played at school because the fact of losing could affect the childs development ?

A condemned one. A joke runs around Spaniards fakebooks about the new way to evaluate students here. We will use emoticons.

We had some "communists" who tried to ban football ("soccer", my USofAian friends) because it's a game mostly played by boys. And they thought it's some sort of discrimination around it. We had luck, and there were too many jokes around it to continue forward that imbecility.

Again, it's not about who won, but who tried better and who had fun. I can understand while they are still "puppies" (I'm used to compare humans with the rest of world mammals, mostly dogs) they must try to win "at any cost". But education's goal is to prevent that "any cost" to go too far. If you don't allow them to try hard, they will never try hard anything. But if you allow them to try too hard, they will become alfa-males when adult, and those kind of people sucks (in our softciety).

Again: we are moving around the "honour" concept. Bushido.

[Martin_US]

Well,

in Germany part of the problem has been in recent years the immigration policy.
The so called 'muti-culti'. Meaning leaving every immigrant in their social and ethnic realm, instead of intergrating into the German culture.

This of course goes a bit further considering the whole of the EU, which politicians made people believe it had any benefit for them, which it truth, it really hasn't. There are any number of reasons for it, one of course is having no common language.

On that debate, I am very much with those US politicians who demand English language skills in the US. I think there is a difference in supporting people by offering help in their native language vs. a kind of Gettho building. Nothing wrong if one wants to honour their heritage - plenty of reasons for it. But as one people, one language is needed.

This lack of integration is also reflected in the schools, thus the kids pick it up early and willingly or not you get this group building that is very counter productive.

But this would not quite explain the disregard of your fellow peers in the US, which has been a country of immigrants.
I for one was always of the opinion that if you decide to live in another country, you have to adopt. At a minimum behave like a guest.

So, a guest at a mall, tram, plane, etc may be a paying guest, but that doesn't mean not to respect the hosts.

[Martin_US]

As it happens, I just learned that ALDI USA uses the same principle for the shopping carts as in Europe.
You have to put 25 cents in to get one and get the 25 cents back, when you return it.

Things can be so easy ...

[sapsepo]

Interesting thread. And, unfortunately, it’s not only an American thing.
I can tell you the story of a happy country, which during the ‘90s got bored of its politicians and their endless corruption.
It then fell in love with a smart guy, and rich; he was famous for his TV stations, broadcasting old American series and jolly women with big tits.
His message was easy and direct: “If I was so good with my companies, imagine what I can do managing the nation”.
It is obvious now that his interest was his own, and not the good of country, but the support to the smart men is not diminished, despite all his problem with the justice.
You might think of stupidity, but it is not: the average inhabitant of this fantasy country considers the ‘smart’ man as a role model, and started behaving that way.
He’s got women, money, and is not subjected to authority, why shouldn't I be like him?
So what’s the point in returning back the trolley at the supermarket (unless they force you to do so for money), or keeping your place clean (someone else will pick up your litter)?
What’s the point in paying your consultants for their job?
Let them sue you, they would spend more for lawyers than what you owe them.

[Martin_US]

Honey,

you got way off subject

[sapsepo]

Ooops.
Sorry for the rant.
Just to underline that it is not an american issue, all the people are behaving like shit.

[grigsbycathy]

Martin,

Here's a blog I wrote a few years back in SCN:
http://scn.sap.com/community/erp/operat ... -processes

I actually talk about some cultural differences there.

Sooo.. I have to ask, since you pointed it out. You said that the Germans do jack until they have a complete picture of the project. Are you a person that does a lot of planning? I.e. a detailed appointment book, a planning session each morning, your daily task list and to-do's? All assigned to time blocks?

If you do, I totally envy that. I try and try but I am not real good at that. I wish I was better at it. Must be my American upbringing overcoming my German heritage!!

If anything, what I have found is that the older I get, the fewer significant differences I see in the various cultures. I.e. things that at the end of the day really impact the world. Every culture has their problems.

Of course you are right that it also depends where you shop, but that may only change the degree to which you can observe this.

Walmart, BestBuy, Kmart etc would be drastic examples, but the same happens at other stores as well, only to a different degree.

Well degrees are important. Any place you pick is going to get the occasional bad customer or the bad employee. You can always run into them. (It's one of the reasons when I want to buy something expensive like a car I dress like a dirt bag and unshaven. Now I pretty much use the same salespeople over and over now so I don't do that much anymore. )

I do think that in the US, (and carrying over to other countries as well), our expectations have been greatly reduced. We don't expect good service anymore so why should a company give it too us? We don't expect kids to behave a certain way so why should they? We don't expect our politicians to behave a certain way so why should they. (As a society anyway, not individually).

I'm very much into dogs and I train and handle a search dog. A dog trainer once said to me "How do you know what your dog can do if you've never asked it to do it?" Again an expectation. If I fully expect my dog to climb a ladder and climb back down, there is a good chance he will. If I never ask him to do it, there is no way he will.

Just like our kids. My son knew that college was expected of him since he was in first grade. It wasn't a choice for him to be capable of going. It was his choice, if he wanted to not go. But it wasn't his choice to have the ability to go. I expected that of him.

We are a society that is continuing to lower our expectations.



I attribute the beginnings of this to our "self-esteem" policies that first infiltrated the youth sports programs. Everyone got participation ribbons, many leagues stopped keeping score, everyone got to play equally. We wanted everyone to feel good. As a result, on average, I think everything got watered down.

Everyone can't be winners all the time. Life isn't fair. And it'll stomp and kick your ass when you're down. It's up to you to practice and succeed. To find a way to win and carve out your own niche on a team which may mean not being the star QB or clean up hitter. To recognize that there are people smarter, or stronger, or faster than you are. That was what I was taught growing up. But it's not what is taught today. As a result, most kids are not prepared for the world when they come out of school.

Craig

I agree with the word with underline,we put too much hope on others,but we does't ever think about if we can do it .

[VLozano]

I like this new way to put advertising links... Is grigsbycathy a bot? if he is, the AI is improving a lot...

[Martin_US]

Hmm ...

Something else I have noticed, but that could be really a gobal thing.
When I was young, we were drilling holes with our questions into the older colleagues.
Today it seems, this doesn't happen any longer. Be it in our professional area or other wise.
Might be that people don't want to intrude privacy. Not sure what the reason is.

I was always (and am) interested in the experiences of others. How else can you advance and learn?

I don't have the expectation that everyone has to be a winner and I am with Vic:
You can't know everything, but find the answer and don't lie.

My experience using any number of IT related forums has been that answers are given, regardless if they are on the topic, correct or meaningful. Goals seems to be to mislead.

[blueteeth]

Shark (the fish) was found traveling New York subway with a cigarette in mouth. I find that odd. Don't they normally use limos?

BT