Is anyone using multiple specs in SAP

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chrisn
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Is anyone using multiple specs in SAP

Post by chrisn » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:12 am

I was wondering if anyone here is using multiple specs in SAP to manage customer specifications? If so are you using both qualitative and quantitative cahracteristics?

Do the qualitative ones valuate properly for the multiple specs?

pelipen
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Re: Is anyone using multiple specs in SAP

Post by pelipen » Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:00 am

Yes, Yes, and Yes.

You will get a different symbol for valuation of qualitative MIC's. It says "alarm" for a failure, with a red square and lightening bolt, if it fails a customer specification.

To get it to work, you use codes from the same code group in two different selected sets. Something like this conceptually:
Code Group: COLORS
Code: B - Black
Code: W - White
(It may work with the same code value in different code groups, but I have not tried that, and I don't like duplicates codes scattered around anyway)

Selected set (in your plant): COLORS1
use codes from code group COLORS
Code: B - Black - Valuation = Accept
Code: W - White - Valuation = Reject

Create a second Selected Set "COLORS2" with the same two codes, but make the valuations the opposite. B=Reject, W = Accept.

When defining your inspection use COLORS1 as your standard. For the dep. char specs, change the s.set to COLORS2 for that customer assignment.

if you record a value: "B" in your inspection lot, when you valuate the MIC, you will pass your internal spec, but the customer spec will be rejected/alarm. During the UD, the proposal will be to reject/fail for that customer.

-Cheers

chrisn
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Re: Is anyone using multiple specs in SAP

Post by chrisn » Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:52 pm

Intersting I will try that thank you so much. I have to ask how did you come up with this setup? We have not done anything like that in the past in regards to codes/code groups.

All of our selected sets are created at a "central" plant and are shared by all. Are you saying that this will only work if I set them up and the plant doing the inspections?

Also when you mention dep characteristics are you meaning ones set in the insp plan or the workbench?

pelipen
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Re: Is anyone using multiple specs in SAP

Post by pelipen » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:20 pm

chrisn wrote:I have to ask how did you come up with this setup?
Just experimentation. I figured the only way a customer specific difference made sense was if the valuation for the same code was different.
All of our selected sets are created at a "central" plant and are shared by all. Are you saying that this will only work if I set them up and the plant doing the inspections?
Keeping them all in the central plant is fine (and preferable to me), you just need to use two different selected sets so the valuation of the same code can be different.
Also when you mention dep characteristics are you meaning ones set in the insp plan or the workbench?
I'm referring to maintaining the dependent char specification using the workbench CWBQM. You can see them in QP03, but you cannot edit them with the QP01/02 transactions. When you go to the dep char. section in CWBQM, there will be a tab called "Catalogs".

chrisn
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Re: Is anyone using multiple specs in SAP

Post by chrisn » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:44 pm

OK I forgot one other thing and this may be the most important. Most of the time the code (if I use your example)will be the same for both the internal and customer.

Say we are making a part that is black then the internal spec will be Black = Accept and a customer buying this expects a black part also so the code needs to be Black = Accept for the MS also.

I don't see how we'd do it in your scenario.

Craig
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Re: Is anyone using multiple specs in SAP

Post by Craig » Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:43 pm

Also, maybe to clarify Chris. If I remember correctly, some of these customer qual. tests are customer specific and were only done if they thought the customer was going to get the material. I believe they were set up in a separate operation as long-term and optional. That allowed the ability to go back at anytime and record the optional test. Then in the UD the customer spec could then be appoved for the customer. Then the batch would be updated by the UD and approved for the customer. Prior to this being done, no batch could be selected for that particular customer.

So that is why there isn't a different "spec" for the qual. tests. They aren't typically run unless its needed for a customer.

Chris, what if you created a separate selected set for the customer that only included the one acceptable code? It would be a separate selected set as pelipen indicated is required but the code would be the same as that used in the MIC selected set.

Craig

chrisn
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Re: Is anyone using multiple specs in SAP

Post by chrisn » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:12 am

Craig,

Your right we do also have that scenario also. I will have try setting up some new selected sets as you describe and see what happens. I'll let you know.

pelipen
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Re: Is anyone using multiple specs in SAP

Post by pelipen » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:53 am

If it's the same code and valuation, I'm not sure what reason there would be to define it as a dep characteristic spec using multiple specs, vs. just a separate long-term, or conditional characteristic. Both can still classify the batch. The difference with the dep char spec is that it uses the reserved LOBM_CUSTOMER_OK/NOK characteristics for classification. (or whatever class char you specify in config), and can valuate multiple customers at the same time, which is nice.

Using the Multiple Specs also allows you to specify a different selected set for a customer, so the valuation can be different for the same code, which may or may not be useful. The valuation could also be the same, or you could use the same selected set (which inherits by default).

Let me know what you find. I've spent a fair amount of time with Multiple specs, so shoot me a PM or post here if you hit a snag.

chrisn
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Re: Is anyone using multi specs in SAP

Post by chrisn » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:41 am

pelipen,

I'm just getting around to testing this and in your last post you mentioned
The valuation could also be the same, or you could use the same selected set (which inherits by default).
That is what we do now use the same selected set for both the customer and standard and the customer ones always fail.

I'm still a little fuzzy on how I would set up two different selected sets and have opposite valuations for the codes. I understand how to create them just not understanding how they would actually work.

Even though the code may be the same for the standard and customer spec I would think I still should be able to use them in dep chars since it is part of the actual customer spec. the fact that they happen to match the std shouldn't matter. But that is my thinking.

chrisn
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Re: Is anyone using multiple specs in SAP

Post by chrisn » Wed Oct 06, 2010 9:16 am

Ok here is the latest I hope someone has an answer:

I actually was able to get the multiple specs for qualatative characteristics to work by changing the valuation mode on the sampling procedure from 400 Valuation according to char. attrib. code to 200 Attributive inspection number of defects.

I changed the valuation for the QUAL_01 from 400 to 200 without changing anything in the plan and it works fine. But when you go into the plan and try to do a dropdown on the sampling procedure QUAL_01 doesn't show up and then you get an error message that the valuation doesn't match the characteristic.

I thought if I created a new sampling procedure I could assign that but it gives me the same error saying I can't use valuation 200 for that type of MIC. Yet it lets me update the sampling procedure itself and it works fine.

Any ideas how I would need to set up a qualitative MIC to use the 200 valuation.

ndhennin
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Re: Is anyone using multiple specs in SAP

Post by ndhennin » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:45 pm

Any news on that subject ? I am facing exactly the same problem : impossible to assign a valuation procedure with a valuation mode equal to 200, and every other valuation mode gives a lightning as result of the valuation ? really annoying...If I assign a valuation procedure with valuation mode 400, and change the valuation procedure AFTER the assignment to valuation mode 200, then, it works fine... As I have seen no OSS note, I guess that there is a standard way to make it work...

tyllermills
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Re: Is anyone using multiple specs in SAP

Post by tyllermills » Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:46 pm

ndhennin wrote:... If I assign a valuation procedure with valuation mode 400, and change the valuation procedure AFTER the assignment to valuation mode 200, then, it works fine...
:roll: hummm I am sorry to tell you that, but this way is totaly stupid.
In the match-code sampling procedure from inspection plan, SAP purpose only SP compatible with your MIC. If you do not see your SP, it's because they are incompatibles. Do not try to break the way how SAP works .... your lost your time.

If you want to valuated by "200- number of defect", you have to setup your Qualitative MIC :
- without attribut char.
- with "Defect nb recording". (this check does not appears (not compatible) with "char attrib."

Did you try "100- by char non-conformity unit" :?:
This rule is the easiest way to valuate Qualitative and Quantitative mic ....

ndhennin
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Re: Is anyone using multiple specs in SAP

Post by ndhennin » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:59 am

:D Stupid, that's the word...but the solution (which is not one) is the only one I found to make it work.
the valuation mode 100 does not work for qualitative valuation with multiple spec because the qualitative characteristics only appears in the multiple spec tab if the control indicator "single value" is flagged. Therefore, in the valuation function module (QEBRMS_VALUATION_MS), the valuation is not carried out because only valuation modes 200 and 700 can be valuated with possibly several individual results. The valuation mode 100 only works for one value, and a quantitative characteristic.
If you have a "non stupid solution" to use the "standard SAP", I will be humble enough to thank you for sharing it with me :wink:

chrisn
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Re: Is anyone using multiple specs in SAP

Post by chrisn » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:21 am

I was able to make this work with some insight from SAP. You can only use valuation mode 100 for these no others will work that is what SAP told me is standard behavior. You also can only use`single recording not summarized.

i also had to make a change in the sampling procedure with the sample size. I'll have to check and update the message later.

But there are other limitations on how these need to be set up. You can only assign a selected set to the characteristic there is no way to assign a code to a customer. So essentially all you get is either it's good or not good which is the same thing as the regular qualitative characteristic the only difference being it will now valuate in relationship to a specific customer.

I have been out of the business for awhile and now in IT but I really don't see much value in this. The really only time it's of valu if the qualitative characteristic you set up is a characteristic for a test only done for that customer, but I could be wrong.

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