Is the US closing the GC door?

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Is the US closing the GC door?

Post by Martin_US » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:43 pm

I just looked at
Seems that there are plenty of H1B applications and approvals, but when it comes to GC the data goes totally south.

Appears to me that the US is slamming the door on that one pretty hard.
Just the raw data would tell me not to apply for a US job at the moment, unless I am very prepared to move back home. Also the denial rate at some companies appears to be exceptionally high compared to approved.

Whops, just found this ... 820082.pdf
I think a 46% fraud rate with Indian companies is mind numbing, but explains a lot.

Companies ruined or almost ruined by imported Indian labor
Adaptec - Indian CEO Subramanian Sundaresh fired.
AIG (signed outsourcing deal in 2007 in Europe with Accenture Indian frauds, collapsed in 2009)
AirBus (Qantas plane plunged 650 feet injuring passengers when its computer system written by India disengaged the auto-pilot).
Apple - R&D CLOSED in India in 2006.
Australia's National Australia Bank (Outsourced jobs to India in 2007, nationwide ATM and account failure in late 2010).
Bell Labs (Arun Netravalli took over, closed, turned into a shopping mall)
Boeing Dreamliner ES software (written by HCL, banned by FAA)
Bristol-Myers-Squibb (Trade Secrets and documents stolen in U.S. by Indian national guest worker)
Caymas - Startup run by Indian CEO, French director of dev, Chinese tech\n lead. Closed after 5 years of sucking VC out of America.
Caterpillar misses earnings a mere 4 months after outsourcing to India, Inc.
Circuit City - Outsourced all IT to Indian-run IBM and went bankrupt shortly thereafter.
ComAir crew system run by 100% Indian IT workers caused the 12/25/05
U.S. airport shutdown when they used a short int instead of a long int
Computer Associates - Former CEO Sanjay Kumar, an Indian national, sentenced to 12 years in federal prison for accounting fraud.
Deloitte - 2010 - this Indian-packed consulting company is being sued
under RICO fraud charges by Marin Country, California for a failed solution.
Dell - call center (closed in India)
Delta call centers (closed in India)
Fannie Mae - Hired large numbers of Indians, had to be bailed out. Indian logic bomb creator found guilty and sent to prison.
GM - Was booming in 2006, signed $300 million outsourcing deal with Wipro that same year, went bankrupt 3 years later
HP - Got out of the PC hardware business in 2011 and can't compete with Apple's tablets. HP was taken over by Indians and Chinese in 2001. So much for 'Asian' talent!
HSBC ATMs (software taken over by Indians, failed in 2006)
Intel Whitefield processor project (cancelled, Indian staff canned)
JetStar Airways computer failure brings down Christchurch airport on \n9/17/11. JetStar is owned by Quantas - which is know to have outsourced to India, Inc.
Lehman (Spectramind software bought by Wipro, ruined, trashed by Indian programmers)
Medicare - Defrauded by Indian national doctor Arun Sharma & wife in the U.S.
Microsoft - Employs over 35,000 H-1Bs. Stock used to be $100. Today it's lucky to be over $25. Not to mention that Vista thing.
MIT Media Lab Asia (canceled)
MyNines - A startup founded and run by Indian national Apar Kothari went\n belly up after throwing millions of America's VC $ down the drain.
PeopleSoft (Taken over by Indians in 2000, collapsed).
PepsiCo - Slides from #1 to #3 during Indian CEO Indra Nooyi' watch.
Polycom - Former senior executive Sunil Bhalla charged with insider trading.
Qantas - See AirBus above
Quark (Alukah Kamar CEO, fired, lost 60% of its customers to Adobe because Indian-written QuarkExpress 6 was a failure)
Rolls Royce (Sent aircraft engine work to India in 2006, engines delayed\n for Boeing 787, and failed on at least 2 Quantas planes in 2010, cost Rolls $500m).
SAP - Same as Deloitte above in 2010.
Singapore airlines (IT functions taken over in 2009 by TCS, website trashed in August, 2011)
Skype (Madhu Yarlagadda fired)
State of Indiana $867 million FAILED IBM project, IBM being sued
State of Texas failed IBM project.
Sun Micro (Taken over by Indian and Chinese workers in 2001, collapsed, had to be sold off to Oracle).
UK's NHS outsourced numerous jobs including health records to India in mid-2000 resulting in $26 billion over budget.
Union Bank of California - Cancelled Finacle project run by India's InfoSys in 2011.
United - call center (closed in India)
Victorian Order of Nurses, Canada (Payroll system screwed up by SAP/IBM in mid-2011)
Virgin Atlantic (software written in India caused cloud IT failure)
World Bank (Indian fraudsters BANNED for 3 years because they stole data).

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Re: Is the US closing the GC door?

Post by VLozano » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:26 am

It's a worldwide crysis. I mean any company can reach bankrupcy although it has no Indian workers.

There are as many bad programmers in India as in any other country (proportionally). But they have a lot more than the rest of the world.

You can close call-centers in poor countries as soon as your "rich" country workers accept to get the same salary. Here (in Spain and Catalonia) it worked.
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Re: Is the US closing the GC door?

Post by Martin_US » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:13 am


you need to check all the references.

As I wrote, there are companies with 8000 some H1B applications. The standards for those are fairly low.
Out of those (in this example) Congress has found 46% to be fraudulent, if one takes a closer look.
Now, you can't compare 8000 H1B in 2013 directly with only 64 Green Card applications, due to the waiting period of at least 3 years, but the numbers differ significantly.

If you enter the US on H1B the (almost) only way to get a GC is through your employer. A H1B can only be extended once (each for 3 years).

So, if you come to the US on a H1B as in this example, chances of getting a GC are almost none.
The risk to be send back appears to be very high.

Now fraud doesn't only mean to falsify documents, but also wages etc.
Under the law, if someone is on the bench, they have to receive the same benefits as if they were working.
That's one major issue. Further, the beneficiary is not liable for any fees during the process.
There are many more such things.

If it comes down to the project list, it takes a significant amount of time to learn and understand a country, it's culture, legal issues, business rules, language etc., next to the fact that it isn't easy to make yourself feel at home. Yet you are expected to deliver results from day one. That's enormous pressure on the people and that's where you get your mistakes from. Never mind that a lot of the guys are freshers.

Putting that all together, the outcome shouldn't be surprising. So, the problem is the system and the expectations, not only the people or their skills. You can't only point to one or the other.

But due to the fact that about 80.000 (by far the highest number) H1B applications are for Indian nationals, it is only clear that this would put them high on almost any statistic.

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Re: Is the US closing the GC door?

Post by VLozano » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:02 am

Starting from the point I don't know what all those letters mean, maybe you are right :P

But it's too dangerous to start to blame people when you should blame companies and their managers...
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Re: Is the US closing the GC door?

Post by Martin_US » Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:20 am

Of course Vic,

it's the managers who put those eggs in the nests.

The H1B are just very poor fellows, especially when they are fresh out of University and get dumped on some rather complex project with close to no experience.

And if you want to really screw it up, you have a project management with no functional and technical background.

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Re: Is the US closing the GC door?

Post by blueteeth » Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:26 pm

I like this motorcycle

Honda NM4 Vultus

(on edit: darn, SAPFANS doesn't show full image--- right click, view image, for your vicarious pleasure)



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Re: Is the US closing the GC door?

Post by Count » Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:44 am

reminds me of the adage:
if you pay peanuts you get monkeys....
you reap what you sow...

the aforementioned companies wanted to save megabucks so awarded contracts to companies/vendors who undercut others massively... so the company who got the contract put in new bees to make money ... its a vicious cycle mate... indians do not have anything to do with it... its the management on the clients as well as vendors side who made these decisions.

the current trend in Oz is: people need 'experts' with a max of 5 years experience. And their expertise requirements reads like half the sap-suite offering.. across modules. All that for about 500 per day and forma consultant who has about 5/6 years of experience.

okay rant finished. :)


cognosce te ipsum, corripe cervisiam ;)


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