Help a nigga or destroy a brother?

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shygirl
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:22 am

Re: Help a nigga or destroy a brother?

Post by shygirl » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:38 pm

Being that this is a general forum, you have full license to take over the thread and also order as many tonnes of jelly as your clown mob can eat.

Maybe if you laugh loud enough, everyone will forget the entire point. I am sure it is totally innocent.

Then you can all rub elbows and feel better about yourselves.

Sounds pretty trypical to me.

Count
Posts: 1373
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:28 am

Re: Help a nigga or destroy a brother?

Post by Count » Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:38 pm

my day just started,... darn,.. and here we are in a typical western cowboy shootout :shock:

well tell u what shygirl everybody else,.. calm down,.. have a few beers,... just chill,.... I have underwent a crash course on Freud and all his fellow cronies over the past week or so,.. now I am qualified to be the self proclaimed-offcial-gd-shrink aka c-dawg.

shygirl: I will read up on all those references to other posts u made in this thread later tonight. mean while why dont you pm me and snowman in caps about your opinion about life in general in gd and elsewhere? that will be a good start for all the future counselling sessions between us.

rest of you folks: dont be shy :wink: :!: dont closet ure mental ailments :!: come to c-dawg :wink: :!: :mrgreen: almost everything can be cured by a little time and a lot of beers 8) trust me :?:

cheers
c.
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Count
cognosce te ipsum, corripe cervisiam ;)

Dictator-for-life-of-the-Tuly-Idiot-Order
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swright
Posts: 4467
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Help a nigga or destroy a brother?

Post by swright » Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:19 pm

You want to play the quote unquote game then here we go. :D
shygirl wrote: When did I say I came for training? Um, no, in fact I believe I asked to simply be pointed in the right direction elsewhere. Rather than do that, you took it as an opportunity to lecture me from your high horse and not be one bit helpful. You specifically, Sandi, were the one who made the racist comment about knowing the difference between a fresher and a newbie.
I did not specify that you were seeking training, I merely stated what the forum is, and is not. I referred to my previous post on the subject about the attitudes of many who come here expecting to be spoonfed and why the regulars don’t like this. Regulars –they are the posters who actually do help other people out despite what you state.

I made no statements of a racial nature when referring to freshers and newbies. That you somehow read a racial association with one or the other of those terms is a reflection upon your own bias not mine. I would add that fresher is a term that people usually apply to themselves not one apply to people indiscriminately. I had not heard or read that term until people started posting here identifying themselves as such.

You are making some large assumptions without knowing anything of my ethnicity or cultural background.
shygirl wrote: I am quite familiar with how the forum works, thank you very much. If that is your defense for being condescending and unhelpful, perhaps they should create a forum particularly for people a little too full of themselves.
It's not a defence it is a statement of fact, if people don't like the rules, and choose to ignore them and then go on to bitch about being pilloried for their behaviour then they can expect condescension.
shygirl wrote:...I'm not sure, but I think you've already made it clear that you don't give a rat's ass about SAP professionals unless they make you look good or kiss your arse. I am sure you have plenty of male slobs to do that around here
I have stated time and again - if people are genuinely new to the SAP game and need help with their work, having demonstrated that they’ve made some effort to solve problems themselves first then I have no problem with that. Being new to working with SAP and learning it in isolation of working with it are two different things.
I have helped many people in the technical forums and the only thing I ask is that they have done some spadework first so that the time I spend answering the questions is not wasted chasing up fundamentals like system version or suggesting things they have already tried. I’m doing this on my own time, at no charge, because I care about security and ethics.
Arse-kissing is not a requirement, and from your disparaging comments about the male posters being desirous of such an activity, makes me think that you know nothing of my, or their, technical contributions, and judge us solely on our GD posts.
shygirl wrote: I don't give a flying rats ass what you think at this point. You set a great example for atheists everywhere and fit the mindset of a 15 years old atheist with your insulting approach.
Pot meet kettle :roll:
shygirl wrote: But for somebody to come on here and antagonize somebody on the basis of their religious beliefs is inappropriate and I'd not do such a thing towards an atheist and would appreciate if they refrain from the same.
Did you read what you wrote just beofre tihs?
shygirl wrote:Sure, it's allowed. Shall I invite some fundamentalists here to preach their BS? Would that be OK with you? No, it''s rude. If you want to challenge my religion, which also has an atheist sect, do so respectfully, not out of derogatory humor. It is clear you all are targeting people outside your little clique.
You can do what you want; I'm just calling you on your elitist and condescending bullshit. Keep going.


As for the rest of you who are defending yourselves and disinviting me: you already did that. Be more original next time.
I have not made derogatory comments about you based on your religion nor said you cannot believe what you want. I choose not to believe in a mythical being of any sort. I don’t care what you believe or don’t believe. I have many friends with very strong faith in their chosen god. I don’t judge them by this and they refrain from telling me I’ll got to hell or some such thing.
The fact that someone else (for whom English is a second language) asked a question about the beliefs of one particular religion, has nothing to do with me.

BTW muhnkee fancies the idea of two women wrestling in jelly. I don't think he planned to eat it, unless you count licking of your boday afterwards.
Sandi
~~~~

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Putting the Chur in Christchurch, bro!

swright
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Re: Help a nigga or destroy a brother?

Post by swright » Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:20 pm

PS before you play the racism card again you might want to look at your subject title, it's the sort of thing that could really upset some people, you know?
Sandi
~~~~

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Putting the Chur in Christchurch, bro!

shygirl
Posts: 21
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Re: Help a nigga or destroy a brother?

Post by shygirl » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:01 pm

Sandi, sandi, sandi:

Do you get tired of backpedalling?

1. Your post was less than nice, even your buddies ackowledged that in the thread. Not such a bad thing in and of itself I suppose, but for people who spend days and days lost and looking for help, for you to take the attitude that clueless is where they belong and should stay (evident in your tone towards 'freshers') is just being ugly. It is too late to backtrack and say "All I was saying is blablabla". I know what you said and it was typical unhelping lecturing you like to unleash on anyone who you ASSume is a greedy monkey with software. It's insulting and unwarranted.

2. You don't have to be a racist on purpose. Your ignorance of the people you condescend to makes you appear like one indirectly, at a minimum. If you don't know the meaning of "fresher" beyond this forum, perhaps you shouldn't brag that you know what they are all about then?

3. you are completely ignorant to my religion, which is evident by your repeatedly talking about some 'mythical being'. You are using the phrase to be antagonistic.
In a passive aggressive way, of course.

4. I can use a racial slur without being racist. This is because I made an effort to understand the culture from which the slur and term I used originated; you evidently did not or you would understand its relevance. More importantly, my 'niggas' are not up in this forum, so this has nothing to do with the same antagonistic behavior you all are exhibiting (most innocently and playfully, of course!). Nice try!

5. I am sure your technical contributions are fabulous: sadly you missed my point that this is no justification.

I apologize for losing my temper and making the arse-kissing comment. I have better things to do than chew people out like that. My point was just that you all need to be less judgmental and smug, because you have no idea how it affecsd the outsiders around you, nor what they are going though. This is why the poor get poorer; this is where systematic repression begins, innocently enough with basic judgments against people you don't understand.

If you worked hard to get where you are, it is hard to believe you forgot it all and have become this callous. Have a heart.

If you really don't know the difference between a fresher and a newbie, then do please retract your comment and apologize for being so judgmental.

Jim B
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Re: Help a nigga or destroy a brother?

Post by Jim B » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:43 pm

I freely admit I have no idea what the difference between a fresher and newbie is. Why is it significant?

shygirl, I think you are being hyper-sensitive, and haven't thought through why posters on GD get a hard time if they ask technical questions. I'll give my opinion:

1 the value of SAPFANS, IT-TOOLBOX and similar sites is not in asking and answering questions, but in storing those questions and answers for future reference. I rarely ask questions on the forums, because I can usually find the answer by searching.

2 So it is quicker for me to find an answer by researching the forums than by asking a question - but I have to put in the effort myself. SDN is slightly different, because the signal to noise ratio is such that searching is a real pain.

3 If someone just asks a technical question on SAPFANs General Discussion, it is close to certain that they have not read the forum rules, and close to certain they haven't searched for the answer. There are exceptions, but they are rare.

4 Asking and answering the same question time after time is a waste of everyone's time. People stop answering the questions. This then clutters the forums with un-answered questions, and makes searching hard (like SDN).

5 My conclusion is the discipline on SAPFANS makes it a valuable searching resource, while SDN is a good place to ask when all else fails, or if you are in a hurry. You may disagree, and have a forum you prefer.

As for the race and religion allegations - I think you are imagining most or all of that. I find such comments obnoxious, but the people you seem to be accusing are not those who write racist comments (unless the fresher/newbie definition has some religious or racial overtones to you. It doesn't to me).

One final comment - I think that is you pick a random poster on GD, and check their comments in the technical and functional forums, I think you will find the tone of their comments very different. GD is not rated PG - sometimes it is rated X. But most notably, if you do pick a random poster from GD, almost all have a large number of helpful and useful posts in the technical and functional forums.

So maybe you could not visit GD, and just use the technical and functional forums?

jim

shygirl
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Re: Help a nigga or destroy a brother?

Post by shygirl » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:19 pm

Mr. Jim,

I will assume you aren't being sarcastic by inviting me not to visit GD. I originally posted in GD asking what other websites to visit for beginners and was not only met with irrelevant replies, but there was a definite lack of friendliness from people.

I think otherwise your post is one of the more helpful ones on the topic and appreciate the effort.

Sandi made the comment during her completely unnecessary lecture to me:"We [I'd assume she was referring to herself and her clique] know the difference between freshers and newbies".
It is mostly non-white south asian people who refer to themselves as freshers in the context of SAP studies and the like. It is everyone else who calls themselves newbies.

It is my understanding now that Sandi admits her only knowledge of the term "freshers" comes from this forum. I will the give the benefit of the doubt and assume she and her buddies did not feign ignorance of the cultural connotation implied in her statement.

As for me being oversensitive, I think many here are being undersensitive. If somebody has not yet encountered such a helpful post as yours, and perhaps has spent literally days looking for basic answers to their question, for a group of people to jump on their polite thread giving them lectures and making assumptions and complaints is not only very discouraging, it's downright humuliating. These "newbies and freshers" have a lot of respect for gurus, and to have their ignorance of forum rules or lack of communication skills made into a mockery is very mean-spirited. I left here a long time ago, despite not having those same limitations, feeling really dejected.

Most of these "freshers" are to humble to stand up for themselves or think they have a right to demand a little respect. They slink away. Today I appointed myself their spokesperson for a minute because none of you seem to be doing it. And despite all the arguments there is a very implicit cultural bias going on here, whether people are ignorant about it or not.

grinman
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Re: Help a nigga or destroy a brother?

Post by grinman » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:42 pm

Dude, to be honest I do not see where do you see racism.

I really understand the feeling of anger you must be feeling (because as you said, your personal background doesn't sound as the most privileged one) and that is ok, but you really need to let that out. Its common after a hard climbing to the top to see any sort of conspiracy, but I really do not see any sign of racism against you in those posts.

And about the religion...
As I understand, you live in the USA. You must know that any sort of taboo against religion is completely lost there (take it as good or bad). In a country where more than 90% of the population is Christian you have public displays of Christmas banned, jokes about raping priests, public representation of Jesus that would surely take you directly to share a place with Judas.
Like it or not, a lot of people fought a long way to be able to express this views about religion and your opinion is not going to change nothing. So do as most Christians do, start to live with it and move on.

swright
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Re: Help a nigga or destroy a brother?

Post by swright » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:01 pm

I said first read the term freshers here, but that was years ago, and this forum is not my only source of data on what a fresher is. When I come across a new word I do my best to research it. I stated that the term fresher is generally a word people chose to refer to themselves, I do not assume that everyone who uses that term is the same race creed or religion. Indeed on other forums it is used by a broad range of peoples. The international nature of the internet causes many words to change and broaden their meanings, and languages borrow words from each other all the time. “Fresher” does not belong exclusively to one race of people.

I totally resent any implication that I am a racist, I am honest in my opinions abut people’s behaviours and those opinions have nothing to do with their race. I’m not trying to be nice, you have reached a point where playing nice with you would be pandering to your journey into self-pity. I’m being blunt, trying to make the message as clear as possible without euphemism or platitudes.

Using a racial slur is a racist action, you are make generalisations base don race, simple as that, be it your own or others. Within in an audience restricted to that one racial group such comments may be taken as self-mocking humour, in mixed groups you really risk offending someone.

You are being ignorant about atheism, for an atheist a god is a mythical being. I’m not saying you can’t believe in whatever god you want, but do not expect me to acknowledge that this god or that god exists. I am not using the phrase to be antagonistic, I’m merely stating my point of view. Also do not presume that I no nothing about your or any other religion, you know nothing about what I have studied. One doesn’t have to be a follower of a belief system to have learned about it, be it Greek gods, Hinduism or Pastafarianism.

I would accept your apology except that you negate it by again assuming that I know nothing of what you call the outsiders around me. You offer apology and then throw a fresh insult straight afterwards.

I did work hard to get where I am. I’m not callous if I was I wouldn’t bother posting in the technical forums at all.
I’m not heartless, I’m sick to death of what Vic calls leechers.
I am tired of people asking questions in the wrong place and without putting in the fundamental effort required to show that they done some troubleshooting themselves, or even have the courtesy to provide simple information about what system they are using and what error messages they actually get. I get tired of people acting wounded when you take them to task for admitting they got a job by faking their resume and then want help to do their job so they can save their arse from getting fired, while at the same time qualified and experienced friends and ex-colleagues are struggling to find work.

There is a cultural bias, indeed but not a racial one. The culture of fraudulent resumes, demands for answers to enable faking an interview and all that those things entail is the culture that many of us have no time for.
Sandi
~~~~

Tuly kiwi. Image

Putting the Chur in Christchurch, bro!

Count
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Re: Help a nigga or destroy a brother?

Post by Count » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:44 pm

Ok I will get serious and try and post sense ....

shygirl: get real lady,.... get off that high-ride u r on. have some beer and chill ok. take jim's advise ,.... and get in stride with gd. if u have an issue go to the tech forums and be happy about it.
if u r a beginner/fresher/newbie and u have problems, they are ure problems not anyone else's and then there is this adage -- no one can help a person who is not willing help him/herself ,.. first....
then I know a lot of the folks here in gd, met with them, shared drinks and they are all experts in their respective fields and respected in the sap world (and I mean the sap WORLD) .... for their expertise as well as their people skills. u dont get far (in any field) if u lack in people skills and a bloody guru in sap any way. so if u just be a little patient and try to get to know them u will gain a lot more than when u do this-whatever it is u r trying to prove.
finally if you still have probs pm snow-man (if I havent already suggested this) in caps and with the word urgent in the subject. and do not forget to include a french translation of your request.
It is a known fact here that all mods prefer french over english (especially if its onion soup).

rest of u tuly folks: why dont we all talk about ummm I remember that post about some internet advise for a friend of mine,... lets see if we can find some more helful answers to that here in this thread.

cheers
c.
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Count
cognosce te ipsum, corripe cervisiam ;)

Dictator-for-life-of-the-Tuly-Idiot-Order
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shygirl
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Re: Help a nigga or destroy a brother?

Post by shygirl » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:25 pm

swright wrote: “Fresher” does not belong exclusively to one race of people.
I never said it did, I said it generally did, which is true. I made a generalization because you made a distinction and apparent negative connotation with freshers. You still haven't explained how freshers are different from newbies.
I totally resent any implication that I am a racist, I am honest in my opinions abut people’s behaviours and those opinions have nothing to do with their race.
I already addressed the concept that your comment wasn't racially motivated if you were unaware of the connotations it carried.
I’m not trying to be nice, you have reached a point where playing nice with you would be pandering to your journey into self-pity.
My journey into self pity? I don't pity my self. I pity the poor people who come on here for help and encounter people like you. Nice try tho; another faux therapist is what we need on this forum.
Using a racial slur is a racist action, you are make generalisations base don race, simple as that, be it your own or others.
Using a racial slur is not a racist action unless it promotes racist concepts. The phrase I used does quite the opposite, but you are simply unaware of its history. I won't condescend to you on the issue since I can promise you I'm more educated on the subject, but I will be more than happy to educate you more about it if needed.
Within in an audience restricted to that one racial group such comments may be taken as self-mocking humour, in mixed groups you really risk offending someone.
This is funny: am I offending white people who think it's ok to offend everyone else? How tragic. By the way, if there are any who culturally identify with the word "nigga' here who take offense, I apologize <echo,echo,echo>.
You are being ignorant about atheism, for an atheist a god is a mythical being.
I know good and well what atheism is, and was an atheist for many years, and an agnostic. I am well familiar with the origin of the words as well as the philosophical arguments for and against each.
I was addressing your wish to tell me I believe in a "mythical being". You don't know what I believe and you clearly know as much about hinduism as you do about being nice to people. Wikipedia doesn't count.
you know nothing about what I have studied. One doesn’t have to be a follower of a belief system to have learned about it, be it Greek gods, Hinduism or Pastafarianism.
I LOVE pasta. I would convert to pastafarianism in a minute. What the heck is wrong with you?
Listen dear: Again, I will not be like you and condescend, but wikipedia doesn't account for learning properly about a belief system. You would not have said I believe in a mythical being if you knew one iota about Hinduism so quit fronting.
I’m not heartless, I’m sick to death of what Vic calls leechers.
Then why don't you both get off the forum and create one for people who don't wish to help out anybody unless they are doing thing their way? I think you like to chew people out, if the hundreds of posts you have been doing just exactly that in can be believed.
I get tired of people acting wounded when you take them to task for admitting they got a job by faking their resume and then want help to do their job so they can save their arse from getting fired, while at the same time qualified and experienced friends and ex-colleagues are struggling to find work.
That is understandable. BUt that is no reason to take it out on people who are usually pretty desperate and do not go about just because they feel like it and have other options.

There is a cultural bias, indeed but not a racial one. The culture of fraudulent resumes, demands for answers to enable faking an interview and all that those things entail is the culture that many of us have no time for.
What you interpret as demands are really just simple communication differences. You see, in India for example, if you stop somebody in the road and ask directions, and they give you detailed directions, you are obliged to speed off without so much as a thank you. That is just the communication style, they don't have time nor custom for flowering up their daily chats. You obviously never had to venture out into a forum where you were the cultural minority and adapt yourself to a vastly different communication style of another culture; you are bound to make a lot of mistakes without others to guide you. And when others alienate and mock you, you are bound to create your OWN elitist circles. Perhaps opening your mind and network to these leechers will do you better in the long run?

So, in consideration of the fact that a large percentage of IT professionals are Indian, Sri Lankan, Etc, you might do well in your career to acquire a little more cultural sensitivity. Or perhaps not. I'm just saying it might help you not get so frustrated with these leechers.

But the good thing as that they will get over whatever you have to say because they have more important things to worry about just like you do. So it's up to you.

Can we like end the redundant erguments and get to the point all this quoting is making me tired.

Thanks for your time and consideration (that's a very non-south asian thing to say)

shygirl
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:22 am

Re: Help a nigga or destroy a brother?

Post by shygirl » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:48 pm

grinman wrote:Dude, to be honest I do not see where do you see racism.
Grinman, I now see that what was conveyed as implicit racism is now only cultural bias and ignorance.
I do apologize to those who either spoke ignorantly or vaguely and gave the impression that they were not only mean and culturally ignorant, but also seemed to have a thing against south asian non-whites.
It may have been an incorrect assumption born of deductive reasoning and education, but I formally retract the term in favor of ....elitist. Or something. OK?
but I really do not see any sign of racism against you in those posts.


Nor do I! I wasn't referring to myself but to the pattern of people who visit here and are mocked and whose culture and religion are routinely mocked. Still, as I retracted my statement, let's start over.
You must know that any sort of taboo against religion is completely lost there (take it as good or bad)Like it or not, a lot of people fought a long way to be able to express this views about religion and your opinion is not going to change nothing. So do as most Christians do, start to live with it and move on.
[/quote]

I do not have to accept anyone publicly disrespecting or openly mocking another person's beliefs (or lack therof). In polite circles, and in those I frequent, this is NOT acceptable. It is time we all (ESPECIALLY Americans) learned to treat one another with honest respect and dignity and not mistake free speech for shit dribbling out of one's mouth. I'm am sure it would leave plenty other things to joke about for those with a real sense of humor.

I feel quite snobby after these posts and would be quite humbled if somebody extended an olive branch. Does anyone in the clown mob have a photo of an olive branch they'd like to post? I'd formally accept it.

Jim B
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Re: Help a nigga or destroy a brother?

Post by Jim B » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:26 pm

The suggestion that you use the technical fora and ignore GD was serious. The two are very different in rules and intent.

GD is not a playground where the children play nicely. It's very much an adult playground where the children don't play nicely. It is not "child-friendly" in playground terms, and does require a thick skin. It is also not for SAP-related queries.

The technical fora are for SAP-related knowledge. Whether this is acquired via a group of 10 or a group of 10,000 users is less important than the total amount of knowledge that is then available for all. So the key metric is useful posters, rather than number of posters.

This arrangement is very different to a paid support site, such as OSS/sapnet, or Microsoft's site. Those sites you have a right to an answer from. On an open forum, you will get an answer if the question is:
1 clear
2 informative
3 interesting
because the people answering do it in their spare time out of interest in the subject.
The value of a particular user is what they contribute.
In other words, complain all you like, but unless you contribute something, no one takes you seriously.

As to cultural sensitivities, there are quite a variety of cultures represented, they manage to get along. You seem to be expecting everyone to cater to your cultural background, rather than accepting there wil lbe differences, there will be misunderstandings. The quibble re fresher or newbie is just bizarre. For example, have enough trouble understanding Americans at any time, so I just work with whatever words emerge and try to make sense of them. I have no intention of learning American slang, jargon, concepts or cultural memes - I simply have better things to do. Multiply that example by how many cultures? I just try to communicate clearly.

In other words, get over it, and contribute,

Jim

Willie 3
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Re: Help a nigga or destroy a brother?

Post by Willie 3 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:24 am

Me thinks ShyLady is in need of some good sex :mrgreen: .......Seems her sexual frustrations, tend to influence her professional behaviour.

Willie.
Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do......

Rich
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Re: Help a nigga or destroy a brother?

Post by Rich » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:26 am

Well Shygirl,

Good for you for going and getting the training, I hope your career florishes.

You've got a lot of hatred and bitterness stuck in your head. It's not these people you need to be giving it to.

I for one am very careful about racist slurs. I see really nothing in all of the above that is racist. Freshers is not a phrase that is generally linked to any one country. It's used in America, India and a host of other places around the world.

Do has been suggested above. Forget all about these perceived slurs. Look forward rather than back. Get Real.
Regards

Rich

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